Episode 22 Image

Flexibility and Success

In this episode, Julie and Trish share with one another how they define flexibility and success and, how Trish has learned to trust in her gut instinct.



Heads up . . . go ahead and take out your legal pad and #2 pencil, your iPad, or whatever method you use to take notes because late in the episode, you’ll hear Julie confess to taking NINE PAGES of notes during this week’s show! Today, Julie has an awesomely inspiring conversation with Trish Saemann, Co-Founder of search engine marketing agency, GoBeyond SEO. During this installment, Julie and Trish share with one another how they define flexibility and success and, how Trish has learned to trust in her gut instinct.


[00:00:00] Julie – Host: Hey there. I’m Julie B and you’re listening to, they don’t teach this in business school, a podcast where we discuss business ownership, lessons that are learned through experience, not in a C. Today, I’m excited to get the opportunity to interview Trish salmon, founder of go beyond SEO. I’m really looking forward to this conversation because I know we are going to get some really great, uh, very straightforward answers from Trish here today about business ownership lessons.

So Trish, welcome to the show. I’m glad to have you today. 

[00:00:42] Trish – Guest: Yes. Thank you. It is a dubious honor to be known as a straightforward person. On the one hand, people are like, wow, you’re really straightforward. And other people are like, wow. Straightforward. so it’s a, it’s a double edged sword, but one, I welcome.

So thanks for the invite. Thanks for having me, Julie. Yeah. 

[00:00:57] Julie – Host: Yeah. I’m so glad you’re here. I appreciate the straightforwardness that you bring to the table for sure. So let’s just get into the first question. Just give us a brief overview about go beyond SEO. What y’all do, and we’ll just start. 

[00:01:10] Trish – Guest: sure. So we founded go beyond SEO in 2009.

And for those of you who were in business then, or familiar with business, then that was a really foggy time to start a business because we were in one of the recessions in our country’s history. But what we found was there were lots of businesses out there that really didn’t know how to get found. And we kind of learned how to do it and then kind of started doing it for people.

We originally were doing it for like our. Like websites that we owned. And then we noticed that a lot of people needed it. So that’s kind of how go beyond was born. So now all this time later, we are a full-fledged digital marketing firm where we, you know, offer all things digital in as much as website design and certainly search engine optimization and, you know, paid ads, email marketing and social media.

[00:01:59] Julie – Host: What’s really interesting. You know, I, I started a B smart in, in 2008 and. I would say anybody who started kind of an online marketing company probably before, maybe like 20, 20, 10, 20 12, something like that really did have to learn how to do things on your own. Cuz there weren’t a lot of classes and things out there.

It really was just figuring it out and how to apply it to business, which was a fun time. But also kind of a 


[00:02:27] Trish – Guest: ride as you say. Oh yes. This one step ahead of the spiders. Like you’re, you’re almost. Reading or learning the day before you have to implement or teach something else it’s like, all right.

Well, we’re just so long as we’re ahead. We’re still ahead. You know, even if it’s only by an inch. Yeah. Even if 

[00:02:43] Julie – Host: you, you only have to know just a little bit more than everybody else in the room to be the 

[00:02:47] Trish – Guest: expert. Really. Exactly. Right. I think for both you and I, Julie, we kind of came to the table with a backbone of understanding marketing and really kind of like the fundamentals.

So really what we both had to learn, and it wasn’t necessarily easy, but learning new tools and how people then interacted with information, but at its core, You know, you figure out if your clients need an education or if they just need to be inspired to buy and stuff like that. But at its core marketing was still marketing, but just the medium that we were utilizing moved a lot faster and how people interacted with it was very different.

[00:03:22] Julie – Host: Yeah. And even today, I mean, keeping up with things today, that’s why there’s so much specialization in, in the industry because trying to keep up with all of it is, is very, very 

[00:03:31] Trish – Guest: challenging. You wanna talk about burnout? I mean that’s every day that’s something new. I was like, we’ll get to that. Don’t have any left to burn.

[00:03:40] Julie – Host: well, we’re gonna get to burnout, but I definitely wanna ask you first though. What is your favorite part of being a business owner these days? What do you enjoy the most about, about this job that 

[00:03:50] Trish – Guest: we do? Sure. So it’s a double-edged sword again, it’s the flexibility. And then the not flexibility at the same time.

So my favorite part is the ability to call my own shots. And a lot of times when people say flexibility, they think calendar flexibility, which is kind of a funny one, because like, sure you have calendar flexibility, but if you wanna be successful, you kind of don’t at the same time.

But the flexibility that I really like is one kind of showing how I want to show up authentically. And if for some reason, The person that I’m engaging with or, you know, they see me and I’m not in, you know, the proverbial three piece suit, which I don’t even own one. So if, if I show up in, you know, as authentic, if you will kind of like me and that’s not gonna work for them, no problem.

I’m not under any obligation to my corporation. Mm-hmm to work with somebody for, or, or to fake it, if you will. I kind show up. And I really like that flexibility. And I really like the opportunity to kind of. Working with somebody and like being able to say, I’m gonna hook this one up. Like, I, I really believe in their product or their service or what, and I’m like, I’m gonna go the extra mile and it’s not something where corporate would say, well, why aren’t you charging for these hours and long because I don’t want to, that’s why, you know.

Yeah. Whereas on the converse side, if I can tell immediately that it’s not gonna be a fit simply because I have an issue with how they do business or like a moral issue or I just flat out don’t like the person mm-hmm I can let them go. So. Level of flexibility has been the most empowering. And again, people think it’s time and it’s sort of time, not exactly time, but it’s more that, that’s the kind of flexibility I really like is kind of cultivate and curate who I keep in my circle.

Mm-hmm , you know, and I don’t mind being around challenging people. I am mind being around jerk faces. That’s those . Yeah, nobody 

[00:05:43] Julie – Host: and nobody got time for. 

[00:05:45] Trish – Guest: No ma’am 

[00:05:46] Julie – Host: and I think not, you know, I think you earn there’s, there’s a level of kind of earning that and you and I have taught a lot about relationships off offline, but I think, you know, when you first, when you’re first starting out in business, you kind of, you, you might have to work with some jerk faces sometimes.

Yep. But then over time you kind of learn who your perfect client is. So I’m actually gonna ask you a question. You know, what makes, what makes somebody a, a good client for you and for go beyond 

[00:06:15] Trish – Guest: SEO? Sure. So I’ll speak this on a micro and a macro level. So like on a, on a macro level, a willingness to collaborate a recognition that the nature of what I do, or really what all marketing does is that it’s not a silver bullet, that there is a lot of trial and error, and yes, we are really good at this, but what we are.

Our mind readers. And we cannot predict when, you know, the market is going to do X, Y, Z mm-hmm . We cannot predict all behaviors. We can infer, and we can take an educated guess, but we can’t predict. And I also don’t actually work for Google it’s I always think of the internet or search engines as the ocean.

And I’m just a really good surfer, but that doesn’t mean that I can actually control the ocean. I can just work with it really. That’s really it. So anytime somebody comes to table thinking that I’m gonna flip a switch and it’s going to work on the rare occasion that that happens. And I look like a magician.

It’s awesome. And I immediately warn them like this doesn’t happen. This isn’t the normal thing. This isn’t the normal, it’s usually a little bit of trial and error. So you know that the people who are willing to understand that people recognize, and this one’s a really crucial one that investing in marketing is not buying marketing.

It’s not a product you. That you know, you can then brush your teeth with, it’s not, it is an investment. It’s a long term. It’s growing a garden, not plucking the apple. It’s, it’s much more of a, a long term holistic. And then like on a more micro level, the ones that really do well with us are the ones who end user does research before they hire them.

Mm-hmm so it could be everything from. You know, a veterinarian or somebody who’s going to board your pet to an attorney, you know, it could be anything like most people aren’t researching toothpaste before. I mean, they could, but those kinds of clients are not really the ones that we work with. Mm-hmm most of the time people are like, ah, run to the store, get whatever toothpaste they’ll or order it online or whatever.

Mm-hmm they may do some research, but it’s. The best ones for us are the ones that, you know, need a bit of an education or they’re researching the product before they buy it. Mm-hmm and those are the ones we could really, really help because what we do is shorten their sales cycle. Cause we can help them educate their end user faster or get in front of their end user, faster stuff like that.

So that kind of stuff. So that’s the distinction. 

[00:08:44] Julie – Host: How much does your gut instinct play into who you let into your, your circle including clients, but I’m 

[00:08:51] Trish – Guest: just how, mm. Yeah, almost, almost unilaterally. My gut has to agree because I think that as a, you know, beginning salesperson or then a beginning entrepreneur, man, is it an exercise in people pleasing like it, you know, and there’s already, like, I already have that tendency to kind of meld myself to, and I realize that not only doesn’t that serve, if something is going off in the beginning, it’s only gonna get louder as the time goes on.

Mm-hmm like it’s and that’s not to say to be inflexible. I think the most interesting thing about going with your gut, and this is the part I had to kind of release, I guess mm-hmm is that if my gut is screaming or even just poking me, I have to pay attention. Even if I never get full validation in life, that it was right.

I have to kind of release the fact that I know one of these days I’m gonna know that I’m right. It could be years later. That I ever figure out that, man, I, I had that one peg didn’t I sometimes it’s immediate. Sometimes it doesn’t come at all and I have to release the satisfaction of knowing that the gut was right.

Mm-hmm and just trust that she has never steered me wrong. so it needs to just listen. So it does come into play, but a lot of times I’ll, I won’t let my gut speak up until I’ve gotten into it a little bit and say, all right, gimme a little bit more. And I’ll say, all right, is the reason why this person’s pushing back is because they’re self-conscious or they’re I.

Or they’re really gonna be difficult sometimes a quick education and they, they become a pussy cat, all of a sudden mm-hmm . So I give them a little bit of runway to be like, all right, let’s have it just go, well, I don’t know this is wrong. I know I need SEO. And I’m like, no, no, you don’t. You actually need maybe not let Mely this it’s actually need something that we don’t do.

And then there’s other times where I. don’t worry about the mechanism. Tell me what the goal is. Mm-hmm and if they’re willing enough to be vulnerable to say I’m not maybe right. The mechanism might be different. Here’s the goal. That’s that’s when I’m like, all right, I can, my gut is that they needed a, a minute to educate and then they can be more flexible, I guess.

So that’s but my gut comes into it quite, quite a bit. And like I said, she doesn’t really steer me wrong. So , Julie has spoken to countless organizations for 13 years on topics, including leadership management, employee engagement, and morale, workplace culture, small business ownership and entrepreneurship.

If you’d like it engaging relatable and inspiring speaker for your next event, book, Julie, to speak to your group more details@thejulieb.com. 

[00:11:20] Julie – Host: Hey, this is Julie B and you’re listening to, they don’t teach this in business school today. I’m talking with Trish from go beyond SEO and Trish. You had mentioned burnout early on, and I, I said we would come back to it and I, and now I’m gonna ask you.

Burnout and end business. And, and really more specifically, do you have any stories you can share or anything that you’ve learned along the way as potential indicators for you that say, Hey, I’m, I’m approaching burnout. I’m just interested in this topic as you know. And so any stories you have and anything you can shed light on in this arena would be great.

[00:11:58] Trish – Guest: Sure. So where I have found burnout to be the most visible is gonna sound. I have found that when I’m in downtime, I’m on vacation. I’m not home or I’m about to fall asleep. It’s a holiday, like a literal holiday where unilaterally everybody’s off mm-hmm, like new year’s Eve or something like that. And not only am I thinking about it, but I’m thinking about it from a negative frustration, you know, like my whole life is, have to, and I’m not thinking about my have tos as a parent or in any other relationships that I have I’m thinking have to in terms.

Clients where I start prioritizing the labor over the outcome. And that’s because I’m not in the right head space. And so though that’s when burnout shows up for me the most, when I’m so burned out, I can’t even unplug when I’m attempting to unplug and really had to kind of do some like soul searching as to why that was like not the well I’m burned out.

So I should probably take a vacation or go take a bubble bath. I wanna punch people in the face with the bubble bath thing. Mm-hmm . really bubbles are gonna help me not burn out. Burnout is so much deeper than that. And there are people who actually insulate themselves from burnout mm-hmm and I, this was another red flag for me, is that when I find them joyful in their downtime, I was resentful.

So I’m like, Ooh, here’s here’s another one that the tr that’s a good one. Yeah. Gonna have to dig deep. Like, why am I resentful of someone else’s downtime and joy? Why am I resent? Like, oh my God, they don’t even work hard enough to like, enjoy themselves that much. What the hell kind thinking is that right?

Who am I to kind of like, like, what are they doing? yeah, exactly. Like I’m gonna qualify and quantify their joy. Like, you know, screw you in your joyfulness. How dare you. You don’t know what it’s like, you don’t deserve that vacation. Right? Exactly. Like that’s because you work at a cushy corporate job, blah, blah, blah.

Which of course I could have done too. You know what I mean? It’s not like it wasn’t unavailable. Yeah. When I found myself resentful of other people actually joining their holidays, I was like, man, this is wow. That’s the insidious part of, of burnout. Yeah. Like it, it really, you start resenting other people’s non burnout.

Like it’s not, and that’s, I feel like it’s an American culture thing too. Especially working with a lot of Europeans that they actually priorit. You know, paternity and maternity leave mm-hmm and they prioritize like downtime and taking time off and sharpening the proverbial saw. Whereas we are like, no, we’re gonna drive ourselves into the ground.

And whoever works the hardest at their, at their grave site wins, like, where does this come from? Like what kind of mindset is that? And yet, for whatever reason, good or bad, culturally, we really love to call ourselves working too hard. Yeah. 

[00:14:52] Julie – Host: And you said something that you said when you’re prioritizing labor over.

That’s right. Talk to talk a little bit about that. Sure. Cause I, that’s a, that’s a new one for me and I think I know what you mean, but I’d like you to go into that a 

[00:15:05] Trish – Guest: little bit more. Okay. So this is actually, I’m gonna get real vulnerable with you for a second here. So given what I do for a living, you would think this is the complete opposite, but it is not.

When you start to mentally make the transition as a professional for being paid by the hour to being paid for your knowledge valuing that knowledge is really, really tricky. I don’t know, Julie, like how much would you pay to talk to Trish for an hour? Mm-hmm and I like wanna suck my thumb and be like, I don’t know how dare you have to pay me hard, you know?

And I’m completely an expert in my field in the, like the rational part of me knows this, but like the people pleasing, like I have to work too hard. So when I value labor is like, well, I can, I can justify charging. $1,500. Mm-hmm if I know it’s going to take this many hours, mm-hmm as opposed to, I’m going to save them that many hours.

So I start prioritizing the labor over the expertise and the knowledge I bring to a situation. Okay. Yeah. Do you see what I’m saying? Like, because I’m so burned out that I’m like, if I’m not working hard, I’m not worthy of what I’m being. Yeah. So it’s like, it’s like weird. It’s a weird one. And I think it comes from like coming from working class and like not having a ton of money as a kid.

And like, by not a ton of money, I’m like euphemizing even that actually. Yeah. That you kind of like, again, prioritize, you don’t recognize your own values. So like your threshold is different. It’s a, it’s a weird thing. Like rich dad, poor dad, which there’s that book has some problematic parts of it, but their parts are actually really good.

Yeah. And. like it, it’s amazing how much your mentality changes. And I think a lot of that can be stoked by burnout. Yeah. Because 

[00:16:42] Julie – Host: you’re, I, I think when you’re in burnout, you get into the spin of, I have to do more. I have to do more that’s yes. Like I, I have a very similar experience to what you’re talking about, where when you’re trying to unplug, when you should be able to unplug, you’re still thinking about work mm-hmm and you’re thinking about stuff that needs to get.

I have that very similar experience, but I, I think with this, yeah. It’s you just with business owners? It seems like a lot of the times the answer is just do more work when that’s what they do when they’re burned out. They’re like, I just have to work harder, even if they don’t really need to work harder.

That’s where they go. 

[00:17:19] Trish – Guest: Right? Yeah. I will say that the eye opener for. Was recognizing, and man, was this a better pill to swallow Julie? This, that I, I noticed a couple of mistakes that I had made. Not only mistakes with a client, but mistakes in instructing my team with regards to this client. And like I cringe when I think back on it.

I’m like, not only did you need it vacation, but your clients needed you to have a vacation mm-hmm because you were not humming, you weren’t coming correct at all. Yeah. You were. Like working with a dull scalpel on a surge, on a surgery. Like, no, no, no. Mm-hmm like, you need to step away, take the time, literally sharpen the scalpel and then come back and do what you’re designed to do.

Because even with all of your surgical expertise, a dull scalpel will absolutely screw up what you’re doing and leave scars. And the whole nine, I could take that analogy forever, but so there’s, it’s not just for you. It’s for who you serve that you absolutely need to mitigate Bo burnout and your team too, because.

They will only, and again, it’s tough being a leader because it sounds like you’re condescending to your team and it’s not team. Sometimes your team, they’re not designed to be leaders. They might take leaders in their space, but they’re not, they are designed to implement what’s being instructed. Mm-hmm

So as a leader, you also have to recognize that the container you provide for them is as big as they’re gonna get, or they’re gonna go someplace else. So you really need to kind of train them. And in training them up, that means that if you start speaking negatively about a client or about a situation, they hear it and they adopt it and they start implementing it subconsciously mm-hmm , they’ll start being like, well, you know, this client’s a, you know, pita or this client is, you know, whiny or whatever, because in your own burnout, that’s start.

Even if you don’t articulate it directly, they’ll catch it in your demeanor, towards the client or it’s the situation. And then they start mimic. Yeah, 

[00:19:08] Julie – Host: and it’s really hard’s. I do. And, and when you are in a service based industry where you’re serving clients, you know, you have, you’re not only, you know, responsible for yourself and your, your team, but you also have this kind of responsibility for your clients as well.

Like there’s these levels of, I guess, pressure on your shoulders, but when you’re burned, I mean, and I’ve done that where I just get disgruntled about a client that I have, and absolutely, you know, I’ve seen it show up in my team and I have to say, oh gosh, I have 

[00:19:40] Trish – Guest: stop that is, can I cut that out? yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So when I said, like, prioritizing the labor over the outcome, I’m now working on like, oh, we have to do so much for this client. Or the team has to do so much for this client. I’m more focused on the labor and not on the outcome. And it’s either one of two things has to happen. Mm-hmm we either have to focus on the outcome for a positive outcome, or we have to let them go because it’s a poor fit.

Like one of two things has to happen, but you can’t just be like, well, the client sucks. And therefore mm-hmm , you know, if the client sucks and you didn’t get rid of them or fix the problem, you are the problem. Yeah. And a lot of that comes out in burnout. I have found like when I’m not burned out, I can address that right away.

And I, I cut it off or I correct it very, very quickly when I’m burned out. I just kind of lean into the labor because I feel like I’m productive when I’m not, I’m really just kind of spinning my wheels. Yeah. You’re not getting, 

[00:20:27] Julie – Host: you’re not moving things forward. No, you’re working a lot, but you’re not moving forward.

Exactly. let’s talk about the, the people who work for you for a minute though. And, and Trish, I’d love for you to talk, cuz I know how you’re kind of set up, but I’d love for you to discuss how important those key employees are to your organization. 

[00:20:46] Trish – Guest: So not only are they important, I don’t know that we’d be where we are without them.

And the best analogy that I can use for this is you can’t look inside your own. you can’t see it now you have, you know, you are awareness that they’re there, you use them, you know, to hear, um, you use them for balance. Like there’s a whole bunch of thing, but you can’t see them. Mm-hmm so having a teammate that says actually something’s wrong and you can’t see it.

It’s a very vulnerable thing to be like, I can’t see it. I know it’s there, but I can’t fix it. And you have to have somebody else look into it. That’s what having key employees are like, because the weird part is, is. if you have key employees and they don’t, they say, everything’s fine, everything’s fine.

Everything’s fine. And it’s not, mm-hmm , they’re not helping you. They think they’re helping you and they’re being compliant, but they’re also not. So like one of my team members is actually really quite quick to push back and say, oh no, no, no. Let’s, let’s look at that again. And let’s revisit that because I’m seeing it from a different perspective and the nature of my relationship with her.

Mm. Is that it, she causes me to reflect and recognize that I don’t necessarily see it. That does not necessarily mean, I agree. Mm-hmm because she doesn’t necessarily have the whole picture either, but she’s providing a reflection of an area that’s a blind spot. Mm-hmm so like having those cuz even when you’re driving and you say, Hey, you know, if you’ve ever been in the car with somebody and you’re in like a really weird intersection, you can hate like, can you check.

You know, you know, check my six or whatever, say like, look on the other side, I’ve never been in the military. So I’m pretty sure that means look directly behind you. Mm-hmm but you know, like, can you look, cause I can’t see over there, so you have to trust what they’re saying and then kind of move forward, but they’re not driving.

Yeah. So like, just so that you can go, you can go, you can go. It’s like, well actually I can see the other side of this, so I know I can’t go yet, but thank you for letting me know that I’m clear here. So they provide that. And again, I know I’m speaking in a very like esoteric kind of way, but. Those key employees help you see blind spots that, that you can’t necessarily see.

So they’re, and from a, you know, again, since we’re talking about burnout, mm-hmm , they can also kind of drive for a while mm-hmm oh yeah. They’re like, all right. I realize that you’re not necessarily gonna drive the full distance, but I need eight hours of sleep. Can you drive the risk away? And they can, and those are the, 

[00:23:02] Julie – Host: I have, Eileen is my, you know, mm-hmm, she’s my, and, uh, I would be lost without her, but yeah, she will actually.

We’re in a stage of business where she’s transitioning to just kind of be my calendar keeper in a lot of ways and, and book interviews and things. And, but she will look at, I, I finally had to be vulnerable enough with her to give her access to my whole calendar, which has, you know, business stuff, but also like, oh, Julie’s going to this doctor’s appointment thing that nobody needs to know about.

Like, she sees that. Right because she, and she wanted that because she pushes back on me and she, she will tell. You were doing too much. You need, I’m worried about your time. I’m worried about you burning up. Yep. And will, you know, move stuff around for me if needed. And that’s the kind of vulnerability, like you don’t usually think that you want your, you know, your employee to see, oh, you know, I’ve got this birthday party coming up, that I’m going to what all, you know, those personal life things.

But with her, it works and it it’s required because I need somebody to who pushes back on. Right. Because I will say yes to everything because I like talking to business owners. So . 

[00:24:11] Trish – Guest: Yeah. Yes. And I also have a really, cause I have very much the same thing. I’m also apparently really bad at recognizing that.

I don’t have time for stuff. Mm-hmm cause I’m like, no, I can’t squeeze it in there. No, you can’t. No, you literally can’t. You there’s literally not. Yeah. You’re literally doing something at that moment. like, you can’t do anything else. Yeah. I got really, really bad at that. And, and Eleanor pushes back. She’s like, so I love that you think you can do this in a week.

She’s like, we’re gonna put two months somebody . Whatever. 

[00:24:40] Julie – Host: And I always tell, I tell other business owners, like, if you think it’s gonna take a week plan plan, at least three, and I don’t even follow. Oh, 

[00:24:47] Trish – Guest: I, that I just don’t do in myself. We’re the best at that. Oh my God. It’s oh, 

[00:24:53] Julie – Host: it’s so true. Something that I wanna ask you.

I don’t think I’ve ever actually asked you before is I would really love to know how you define success. 

[00:25:01] Trish – Guest: So it’s a, it’s a really, really, really great, great question. Because again, Kind of true to form here. It’s an internal thing. Mm-hmm and I think as a more insecure entrepreneur or just person in general, success really felt external.

It was an extrinsic thing. It was something that other people was stowed upon. You mm-hmm as opposed to something that you acknowledge and wrap recognize in yourself. So to me, one of the, the first things I recognized that I had quote. Made it was when I made the decision to really just start accepting what I wanted in my life.

acknowledging that there were things that I didn’t want in my life and say, okay, thank you for the lesson. And now you’re going back over this fight. Mm-hmm and a lot of that looked like clients. And a lot of that looked like even like staff or professional colleagues mm-hmm and I really started to get in tune.

I actually started meditating quite a bit, and that’s when I started to really recognize the intrinsic nature of success. you can get all the accolades from the external and they’re very nice. They’re very validating. Mm-hmm and, and it’s really cool to be recognized by your peers or by an industry or whatever it is, but hitting success does not necessarily mean hitting the accolades.

Yeah. Um, the success comes from mitigating burnout mm-hmm and recognizing that you can actually run a successful business and not run yourself ragged or not even come close to running yourself ragged. Mm-hmm just like getting to a point where I. I’m gonna need a break soon. I should probably plan one and like not, I needed a break four years ago.

Let me plan one in a year. Do you know what I mean? I know you do, Julie. I know you. Well, for 

[00:26:41] Julie – Host: me, I just end up in the hospital when I’ve had those moments, my body was like, no, you’re done. You’re going, you something’s happening. And you gotta go to the emergency room for it. Like that’s 

[00:26:49] Trish – Guest: what’s happening to me.

So, oh, and my right arm didn’t work for two and a half years literally was in it SL and no doctor could look at it and say, something’s wrong. I’m like, I promise you something’s wrong. Yeah, something’s wrong. It’s you’re burned out. yes. I’m I’m right handed and my right hand is not working. So this could be a problem so that no, that was actually a huge wake up call.

And I know one, it was for you as well that it can like, oh really? I really, I really can hurt myself doing this. Mm-hmm so I have found that success is a lot, like being able to curate my own schedule. You know, going to the beach and still working when I want to mm-hmm going to the beach and not working mm-hmm when I can, I have to plan it.

Mm-hmm I mean, like I do have to, you know, put things in place to make sure that that happens, but also curating the morning that I want and not having that rushed, you know, that I move at the pace that I wanna move. Mm-hmm and, and it’s actually pretty fast. I’m naturally kind of Ile kind of high. I’m sure you probably are together, but I can move at the pace that I would like to move mm-hmm and being responsible for my.

really was a, was a successful one for me too. Like I remember like one threshold for success was when my husband quit his job and we were working go beyond full time. Like that was, that was really awesome. That was a measure of success. And, you know, being able to, you know, pay for my life, like the life that I lead and it’s, it’s a good one.

Mm-hmm and, you know, paint the life that I’m leading and not really worrying about gaining income from, from now. I have multiple streams at this point. You know, getting to a point where, but it was really more intrinsic, like the ability to, to curate and show up how I wanted to show up. Mm-hmm that was, those were the measures of success.

And again, as a younger entrepreneur, I really wanted, and I got some, I got some accolades and I ended up getting awards for stuff and that’s cool. But it, in some cases it felt like, all right, this one might be worthy. This one might be just because the right people liked. For whatever reason and you know, it doesn’t always necessarily come to a, a measure.

And again, I’m not denying any of them. They’re. Flattering and affirming and wonderful. And I appreciate all of them truly mm-hmm but I couldn’t end myself to that. Yeah. Because if they didn’t shake out, then am I not successful? Yeah. 

[00:28:59] Julie – Host: I mean, it’s, it’s okay. Yeah. It’s totally okay to, you know, win awards and say that, you know, that it’s validation and it does make you feel successful.

One thing that I’ve kind of changed because I, you know, I was much like you where everything, it was defined by what everybody, everybody thought or saw. And I, you know, I even still struggle with that some today, but what I. I’ve turned it into business language, true to my form of a process of leading indicators and lagging indicators and things like winning awards are kind of lagging indicators of success for me, but the leading stuff, that’s the, I actually have time to meditate every day.

You know, that is something that makes me feel successful because. A lot of business owners would not be able to take 30 minutes in the morning and meditate. And I know that, and you know, those are the types of things that I think that don’t get talked about enough because we, as a, I think as a country, focus on keeping up with the Joneses a little bit too much and not enough about like what’s going on inside.


[00:29:59] Trish – Guest: totally agree. Mm. totally agree. Yeah. I love the lagging versus leading. That’s a, I have not heard that turn of phrase. I don’t know if that’s a Julie B original cause it’s awesome. Really, but I agree with you. It’s a, like when you get an awards, it’s a measure of success that, you know, you’re here in the present moment and they’re giving you an award.

It’s something that they recognize over the course say 12 months or whatever it is. Yeah. Whereas how I show up today, you know, did I have time to meditate? And when I was sitting there, was I just sitting there mm-hmm or did I actually get the chance to kind of let it go and let those thoughts show up as they do mm-hmm and kind of.

Float past due. It’s not the absence of thought. It’s the ability to kind of recognize that it’s just the thought. Yeah. Yeah. Label it. Not that it’s just the thought, let it move on by like clouds in the sky. 

[00:30:40] Julie – Host: We can do a whole podcast about meditating. Cause I I’m a big fan of meditation as well. It’s good.

So listen, Trish. I have man, this conversation has been great. I have one more question for you. If you were asked to teach a class about being a business owner to potentially, you know, future entrepreneurs and business owners. what is one thing that you would really want them to learn, 

[00:31:06] Trish – Guest: to be comfortable being uncomfortable?

That’s the big one. And I, I could go into, you know, how to market your business or hiring the right accountant or putting the right people in the seats and stuff like that. But the truth is that you don’t know that they’re the right one until. gone through the threshold of them being the wrong one.

Mm-hmm so like, you know, that’s, it’s always kind of an ephemeral profession, like, make sure you get the best accountant. Like, how do you know until they scrub your books that maybe they weren’t the best accountant, you know? Like how do you know? Yeah. So there’s a lot of communities out there and there’s lots of lessons and do X, Y, and Z.

And you can see some success mm-hmm but the truth is that you are the one that’s out there. So you, you need to recognize the discomfort. does not necessarily mean disaster and discomfort doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t do it. And that’s not the same as trusting your gut, being a little nervous about something it’s not the same as not trusting your gut.

Mm-hmm recognize that discomfort is going to be a, a constant. bedfellow if you will, it’s just gonna be there. And your discomfort actually starts to dissipate and you hit a new threshold, kind of like playing Mario cart. As my kids would say, like you hit level one and then you hit a level two and everyone has its own challenges.

And then you think about your discomfort from level one. And you’re like, oh, I don’t even think about that anymore. I don’t even worry about, I remember I used to freak out over payroll, like, oh my God, I’m gonna, I have to like free of payroll in there. I’m like, I, I don’t really worry about it anymore. I 

[00:32:34] Julie – Host: remember when I started the business, I always thought, man, when I just get to this level, it will get easier.

When I just get to this level, it will get easier. And what they don’t tell you is . It actually, it gets, it’s not, you have a, you have a bigger threshold, a bigger comfort zone and you’re right. You know, some decisions that used to be hard, aren’t hard anymore. Right. But the decisions that are hard are so much bigger and usually impact so much.

So, so many more people, so many more things. Right. So that comfort level, I mean, you’re just constantly moving. beyond your comfort zone as a business owner. 

[00:33:11] Trish – Guest: It’s true. And what’s interesting is it’s not just the challenges of doing things you’ve never done before. Mm-hmm or trying a different, even if it’s been tested and other people have done it, you’ve never done it.

So like I realize flying on a plane is what everybody does every day, but it makes me nervous cause I never have before. So like it’s, even if it’s commonplace, it’s new to you. Mm-hmm but this one is the other kind of discomfort comes. The social professional, like the, the, the blend of the social professional, where you have people who maybe you’re coming up with at the same time mm-hmm or you came to know, and then you start seeing a level of success, and then they don’t know how to be around you anymore.

Mm-hmm or you have other people who are not entrepreneurs and that like, don’t you, and they start poking holes when they’ve never actually been there. Kind of like the parents who tell you what to do when they’ve never been. Yeah. I’m like, oh, you have kids. They’re like, no, I just, this is how I would do it.

I’m like with your non-existent hypothetical children. Got it. Mm-hmm you’re kidding me. Like same thing with people who are in business, but not in business for themselves. Mm-hmm , it’s a very different ballgame. Mm-hmm so you start to recognize sometimes relationships that you have. Change mm-hmm and even other entrepreneurs they’ll because it starts to get like oddly competitive or people get really weird mm-hmm or they refuse every time you talk to ’em.

Everything’s great. Everything’s great. I’ve never had a problem in my life. I’m like, really? You’re an entrepreneur and you’ve never been scared of anything. Are you high? Like what did that happen? Like what I don’t understand. Can you tell me how you do that? Right. It’s it’s so funny. Like seriously, like.

the more you succeed, even if success is like I said, more intrinsic and the more like, yeah. And again, I’ll get like a little metaphysical here, but like the, the higher the vibe you have or your vibe changes, maybe it’s not high or low, it’s just a kind of you vibe different or differently. Some people don’t know how to be around you and that’s uncomfortable too.

Like it gets, it can get kind of foggy. So again, getting back to your original question, like, what would you teach on a, on a macro level? I would say get comfortable being uncomfortable and it ISN. You’re gonna question the choices you made. You’re gonna question the people you’re around and they’re gonna question you like it, it gets, it can get kind of Robbie 

[00:35:16] Julie – Host: trust, man.

I have greatly enjoyed this conversation. I knew that I would, this has been fantastic. I literally took nine sheets of notes on this and I’m excited for less nurses to hear it. So just thanks for being on the show today, people are gonna get so much out of this. I. 

[00:35:34] Trish – Guest: well, thanks so much for having me, Julie.

I always love our conversations on the record and off the record. I always love our conversations. They are challenging and fulfilling too, in a wonderful way. So I appreciate it. I really do 

[00:35:47] Julie – Host: that feeling is mutual and that is it for this episode, but stay tuned because I’ll be back soon with more lessons learned on the business owner’s journey.

I’m Julie. and they don’t teach this in business school.